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.: EXTREME SKWALER :.

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Re: .: EXTREME SKWALER :.

Postby sabestian » 19 Dec 2010 21:29

Yes please, Santa!

I tried google translator and the effect is...well...not entirely understandable.

But I managed to try out my skwal on a small slope. And it was awesome!

After a shock in the beginning, when I finally learned how to handle the bindings, which foot goes in first and how to stand on it... This thing can carve. Well it almost can't do anything else! Carves through ice, bumps, moguls, like a tank! Always holding an edge like crazy.

The only problem was me, trying to find a balance. However, it was not that difficult as I thought it would have been. Summing up, great start!
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Re: .: EXTREME SKWALER :.

Postby Zarkod » 21 Dec 2010 08:21

Glad to see that Santa's first present works fine!
:: Thias FC180, SK200, 173°F, RS176 carbone, FC165 ::
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only skwal makes it possible!
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Re: .: EXTREME SKWALER :.

Postby obi one » 23 Dec 2010 17:10

sabestian wrote:Yes please, Santa!

I tried google translator and the effect is...well...not entirely understandable.

But I managed to try out my skwal on a small slope. And it was awesome!

After a shock in the beginning, when I finally learned how to handle the bindings, which foot goes in first and how to stand on it... This thing can carve. Well it almost can't do anything else! Carves through ice, bumps, moguls, like a tank! Always holding an edge like crazy.

The only problem was me, trying to find a balance. However, it was not that difficult as I thought it would have been. Summing up, great start!



So I put on Santa's suit and beard...and here we go:

for the level beginners...go to Skwal Club Italia website, link to Skwal-Tecnica and click on english version...This is the first present for who is learning the basics...however there is not much sense to jump to the edvanced level (in english hopefully before Christmas....) if you have not read this one. The Advanced Level is a 9 mega document and some info are definitely new concepts (e.g., tilting or skwarving) (I bear the full reposibility :D )

Skwal can be demanding and I suggest to keep the motto: "do it first the right time"

PS-no surprise to see that skwal might also be soft boots...this dimension is not new to skwal...but it mught deserve some place in skwal...let's experiement things :wink:

Obi One


In any case remeber that this is Obi One's proposal. There are skwalers in Skwal Zone, in the AES which may have very different opinions or techniques...so it is only my responsibility to bring forward those concepts in my skwal-tecnica documents.
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Re: .: EXTREME SKWALER :.

Postby sabestian » 03 Feb 2011 14:01

Just to let everyone know, ObiOne was kind enough to translate the Advanced Level section of Skwal-Tecnica. Great read! Thank you.

I have a question, though. In your document, there is a section Image

On the other hand we can see on youtube lots of videos of skwallers gliding both hands on the snow throughout the turn (sort of like some of extremecarving snowboarders do). Just search for "skwal extremecarving".

So, it seems that they are applying rotation in the turn (well, at least upper body). They seem to be very stable when doing that. Is it wrong to do it that way?
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Re: .: EXTREME SKWALER :.

Postby obi one » 03 Feb 2011 21:46

sabestian wrote:Just to let everyone know, ObiOne was kind enough to translate the Advanced Level section of Skwal-Tecnica. Great read! Thank you.

I have a question, though. In your document, there is a section Image

On the other hand we can see on youtube lots of videos of skwallers gliding both hands on the snow throughout the turn (sort of like some of extremecarving snowboarders do). Just search for "skwal extremecarving".

So, it seems that they are applying rotation in the turn (well, at least upper body). They seem to be very stable when doing that. Is it wrong to do it that way?



it is not wrong when you are in a radical skwal carving condition (skwarving as I call it in skwal-tecnica)...

in this condition (the radical and fully laid down position in the snow) it could be convenient for some of us to glide the snow surface to glide both hands on the snow. However, the disengagement process in this condition is slightly more difficult as your "slight bust unit rotation" does not allow you to keep the "lateral body continuity" (see again skwal tecnica section). Basically, multiple skwarves (see again the doc.) becom more difficult to manage...

well... I sometime use both hands gliding on the snow even in my last clip radical skwal carving" (you tube). However I would reccommend not to use it to facilitate the disengagement process...see again radical skwal carving video and check how it was generally "light" and simple my disengagements (when I am not gliding both hands...)

hope this help.

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Re: .: EXTREME SKWALER :.

Postby Philobédo » 04 Feb 2011 13:33

sabestian wrote:They seem to be very stable when doing that. Is it wrong to do it that way?


This kind of carving technic have just one advantage and a lot of disadvantages...

The advantage : your style and position in a picture or when people watch you seems beautiful.

The disadvantages: you loose a lot of speed, you put your body in bad position to engage next turn, lot of snow come to your face during the turn and you don't see anything, your position don't seem natural at all for a skwaler but seems logic for a snowboarder, you don't work with a skwal logic position but with a snowboard position, your ride isn't agressive and you loose something like 40% of skwal speed and grip possibility...

To be honnest i find this position horrible for a guy riding skwal but lots of extreme carver from snowboard and some skwalers do that, i think because they like the sensation to have all the body and two hands in contact with the snow and they probably think that this style is better to see than doing a normal skwal carving turn...

For me that's not skwal but snowboard and skwal mix together...
NOUS BOIRONS DU LAIT QUAND LES VACHES MANGERONT DU RAISIN...
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Re: .: EXTREME SKWALER :.

Postby obi one » 04 Feb 2011 18:09

yep!
agree with Philo "you put your body in bad position to engage next turn"...symmetry has to be respected :D
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Re: .: EXTREME SKWALER :.

Postby tufty » 20 Feb 2011 09:54

First off, hello. I'm a new member, been skwalling a few years, although it's been rare that I take the skwal out (for starters, anything with non-release bindings is verboten at work since a particularly daft colleague managed to get herself a "trauma cranien" on an alpine board, and in general there's too many people on the slopes for my limited sk(wa/i)ll level - torpedoing people when you're in a resort jacket is a bit of a no-no). Just picked up a Panther 178 as a second board, and have been getting back into skwal big time, though. I'd almost forgotten how much fun it is. There's an amazing amount of information on here, wish I'd known about this 5 years ago.

Philobédo wrote:To be honnest i find this position horrible for a guy riding skwal but lots of extreme carver from snowboard and some skwalers do that, i think because they like the sensation to have all the body and two hands in contact with the snow and they probably think that this style is better to see than doing a normal skwal carving turn...

I agree. I come mainly from an alpine boarding background, and I think that the majority of the time it looks horrible on a snowboard, too. That's not to say it's a bad thing, it's getting more people interested in carving, but on a purely aesthetic basis it just looks wrong to me except when it's Jacques or Patrice doing it. Even then it looks better to me when they *aren't* fully laid out. Saying this will probably get me kicked off the extremecarving.com board of course :)

What probably doesn't help my perception of extreme carving aesthetics is that it's insanely hard to do "extreme carving" turns on a 9m radius slalom snowboard. It's probably do-able, but it's way above my personal skill level. The "I can't do it, therefore it's rubbish" school of thought.

Of course, when riding a board or skwal (or even on skis), it's not uncommon to find one of your hands brushing the snow. It's important, however, that the hand "just happens" to be brushing the snow, rather than the rider reaching out for it. Anyone (or anyone capable of riding a performance snow tool, at least) should be capable of bending down and touching the snow, after all, but that doesn't mean that breaking at the waist is a correct position for riding. What I've found, on *any* carving gear, is that to get high angulation, one should mentally avoid the snow, to try *not* to touch it. Concentrate on the proper weight transfer during the carve, keeping the arc pure, and everything else follows. Doing this will get you lower, deeper into the carve, and eventually you'll be touching the snow because you simply can't do anything else.

Just my opinion, of course.

Regards

Simon
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Re: .: EXTREME SKWALER :.

Postby sabestian » 20 Feb 2011 12:28

After gaining some experience in skwaling I have to agree with everything that has been said here. Stability, turn disangagement, loss of speed... Skwal is all about the angular velocity and centripetal force! :twisted:
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Re: .: EXTREME SKWALER :.

Postby obi one » 20 Feb 2011 19:24

tufty wrote: Saying this will probably get me kicked off the extremecarving.com board of course :)


hahaha!... until you don't fully favour very high bindings angulations and very narrow snowboards you are safe... and Patrice would not get you kicked off ...
jokes apart, WELCOME :D it is nice to discuss with extremecarving representatives...in here, and to the best of my knowledge, there's an intelligent freedom of thought in skwal zone :)

I am positively impressed by what you wrote here below. I think it's a beautiful concept...

tufty wrote: What I've found, on *any* carving gear, is that to get high angulation, one should mentally avoid the snow, to try *not* to touch it.

Just my opinion


your opinion counts

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Re: .: EXTREME SKWALER :.

Postby tufty » 21 Feb 2011 21:08

Thanks for the welcome. I was only joking about the xc site, really, they are pretty open minded over there too.

My personal philosophy, if it can be described as such, has taken years to mature, and will probably continue to change as time goes on. It goes back to when I first learned to snowboard, at a time when rental shops asked if you wanted hard boots or soft (I went soft, they looked more comfortable). My third day out, we were taken to Combloux by a friend of my now brother-in-law, who was riding a hardboot rig. His elegant carving was strikingly different to our unaccomplished skidding (and the accomplished skidding of the ESF guy who had taught us to turn and stop). The image stuck with me.

Fast forward ten years, I've moved to France, am working as a liftie, and I'm royally fecked off with uncomfortable soft boots, floppy boards, and achilles tendon strains from bad landings and closing icy slopes on floppy gear. A friend lends me his hardboot rig. "Hey, that's more like it. It carves without folding. OW! It ejects you without warning, too". I was sold, as was my softie gear, to fund a set of SB324s and a Hot Blast. Slowly I learned to carve properly, fast crossthroughs, and I found myself doing what had so impressed me years before. Boarding became the ephemeral search for the perfect carve.

Fast forward again. A colleague turns up with some sort of bastard monoski thing, all leopardskin and wierd foot placement. He proceeds to carve mental curves all over the resort. He let me try. It was ace. More pure, more precise than even an alpine board. And stupidly hard to find at a decent price. Until, 5 years ago, a friend gave me a half dead sk200, which my local ski shop obligingly killed after a season by "unsharpening" what little remained of the edges and grinding the base past the point of no return. Thus followed extreme carving, and back to "classic" carving, with regular checks of leboncoin and ebay for skwals. This paid off a while back with a Panther 178, and it's back to the blue slopes for me.

I spoke of a "philosophy" - it goes all the way back to Franck, all those years ago. Elegance. A turn is it's own justification. A skidded turn is a wasted opportunity. It's not enough to "get down" a slope, perfect lines are a must. Speed is irrelevant. Jumps are pointless. Rubbing the snow is not a goal, but it happens. Beauty, simplicity is everything. When people say "I want to be able to do that", you have won.

You, obi one, and other skwallers, have won. I want to do that. I have technical flaws to correct, but I will do that.

The extreme carving boys are winning. People want to do that. I wanted to do that, but it now seems to me to lack simplicity. And mostly it looks like falling over and getting up again. Repeated. Still, they are having fun, and chasing their own goals. But our ways have parted. I carve without rubbing.

Last year a friend's father (no slouch on skis) said of my boarding, "That was beautiful. It looked effortless". The greatest compliment I've ever had, especially as it was after a 1000m descent through late march fresh snow / chop at the end of the day on a slalom board - it may have looked effortless, but I could hardly stand at the end of it :)

So now I'm back to searching for nirvana, purity of carve, on a skwal. It's hard, and it hurts. Which is why it's wortwhile.
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Re: .: EXTREME SKWALER :.

Postby sabestian » 21 Feb 2011 23:11

Well said, mate. Nothing to add.

Perhaps that skwaling is almost completely symmetrical. This changes a lot!

On an alpine board I've always felt that the technique was much too complicated and not 'pure'. Front side and back side differed a lot, like riding two different things consequently.

There is one more thing, not mentioned before, that struck me most. It is stability during bump absorption. On a alpine board bumps affect the edge hold a lot, if you bend knees the edge angle changes, it is very difficult to consciously compensate for that.

Than, there is a problem with canting setting due to the fact that when you are in a turn the angles differ to when you are on a flat (the board arcs in the curve) trying to bend your knees sideways. This leads to a development of plate suspension systems, further compicating matters...

On a skwal it is all irrelevant. Simple. You can go through or over moguls like nothing else can, the knees and thighs will take care of the absorption without affecting your balance. Shockingly simple and devastatingly effective.
Last edited by sabestian on 22 Feb 2011 08:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: .: EXTREME SKWALER :.

Postby LeTounEnShort » 21 Feb 2011 23:39

Love these words! Clap clap clap clap !
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Re: .: EXTREME SKWALER :.

Postby obi one » 22 Feb 2011 19:11

tufty and sebastian ...you both have to come to one of the AES events...(or maybe you're already have done so) ...the social side of a skwaler is important...to understand.

tufty ...if you have not done it yet your new journey in the "skwaliverse" might also start with this...: http://books.google.it/books?id=xkx9cmFoZZcC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

it's about concepts crossing various disciplines...skwal is one of them...and the search for the purity is not in the skwal, but it starts in the mind of the skwaler...to me, you are already in :)

sebastian,
cool how you explained "stability during bump absorption"...I really like it.

keep in touch
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Re: .: EXTREME SKWALER :.

Postby Rascasse » 18 Jan 2018 23:59

Good to see ObiOne again... "Guess who's back in the lab again..." 0:18s

https://youtu.be/oOxOiaZ7RBA
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